Legislature(1995 - 1996)

04/25/1996 03:10 PM House HES

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
          HOUSE HEALTH, EDUCATION AND SOCIAL SERVICES                          
                       STANDING COMMITTEE                                      
                         April 25, 1996                                        
                           3:10 p.m.                                           
                                                                               
                                                                               
 MEMBERS PRESENT                                                               
                                                                               
 Representative Cynthia Toohey, Co-Chair                                       
 Representative Con Bunde, Co-Chair                                            
 Representative Gary Davis                                                     
 Representative Caren Robinson                                                 
 Representative Tom Brice                                                      
                                                                               
 MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                
                                                                               
 Representative Norman Rokeberg                                                
 Representative Al Vezey                                                       
                                                                               
 COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                            
                                                                               
 CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 253(FIN)                                               
                                                                               
 "An Act relating to insurance coverage for costs of prostate cancer           
 or cervical cancer detection."                                                
                                                                               
      - PASSED HCS CSSB 253(HES) OUT OF COMMITTEE                              
                                                                               
 PREVIOUS ACTION                                                               
                                                                               
 BILL:  SB 253                                                               
 SHORT TITLE: INS.FOR PROSTATE & CERVICAL CANCER TESTS                         
 SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) DUNCAN,Ellis,Salo,Zharoff,Lincoln,Kelly;               
 REPRESENTATIVE(S) Robinson,Kubina,Navarre                                     
                                                                               
 JRN-DATE     JRN-PG               ACTION                                      
 02/02/96      2279    (S)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 02/02/96      2280    (S)   L&C, FIN                                          
 02/05/96      2309    (S)   COSPONSOR(S):  ELLIS, SALO                        
 02/07/96      2330    (S)   COSPONSOR(S):  ZHAROFF                            
 03/07/96              (S)   L&C AT  1:30 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203                 
 03/07/96              (S)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 03/12/96              (S)   MINUTE(L&C)                                       
 03/14/96      2736    (S)   L&C RPT  3DP 1NR                                  
 03/14/96      2736    (S)   ZERO FISCAL NOTES (DCED, ADM)                     
 03/28/96              (S)   FIN AT  8:30 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                
 04/02/96              (S)   FIN AT  9:00 AM SENATE FINANCE 532                
 04/03/96              (S)   RLS AT  1:15 PM FAHRENKAMP RM 203                 
 04/03/96              (S)   MINUTE(RLS)                                       
 04/03/96      3042    (S)   FIN RPT  CS  7DP       NEW TITLE                  
 04/03/96      3042    (S)   ZERO FN TO CS (ADM)                               
 04/03/96      3042    (S)   PREVIOUS ZERO FN (DCED)                           
 04/10/96      3112    (S)   RULES TO CALENDAR  4/10/96                        
 04/10/96      3115    (S)   READ THE SECOND TIME                              
 04/10/96      3115    (S)   FIN  CS ADOPTED      Y18 N2                       
 04/10/96      3115    (S)   ADVANCE TO THIRD READING FLD                      
                             Y14 N6                                            
 04/10/96      3136    (S)   COSPONSOR:  LINCOLN                               
 04/10/96      3116    (S)   THIRD READING 4/11 CALENDAR                       
 04/11/96      3167    (S)   READ THE THIRD TIME  CSSB 253(FIN)                
 04/11/96      3168    (S)   PASSED Y19 N1                                     
 04/11/96      3168    (S)   KELLY  NOTICE OF RECONSIDERATION                  
 04/12/96      3205    (S)   RECON TAKEN UP - IN THIRD READING                 
 04/12/96      3205    (S)   COSPONSOR(S): KELLY                               
 04/12/96      3206    (S)   PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION                         
                             Y18 N1 E1                                         
 04/12/96      3220    (S)   TRANSMITTED TO (H)                                
 04/15/96      3733    (H)   READ THE FIRST TIME - REFERRAL(S)                 
 04/15/96      3733    (H)   L&C, STATE AFFAIRS                                
 04/15/96      3783    (H)   HES REFERRAL ADDED                                
 04/15/96      3785    (H)   CROSS SPONSOR(S): ROBINSON,KUBINA                 
 04/22/96      3936    (H)   CROSS SPONSOR(S): NAVARRE                         
 04/23/96              (H)   HES AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
 04/23/96              (H)   MINUTE(HES)                                       
 04/25/96              (H)   HES AT  3:00 PM CAPITOL 106                       
                                                                               
 WITNESS REGISTER                                                              
                                                                               
 GENE DAU, Representative                                                      
 American Association of Retired Persons and                                   
    Veterans of Foreign Wars                                                   
 P.O. Box 20995                                                                
 Juneau, Alaska  99802                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 586-3816                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of CSSB 253(FIN)                    
                                                                               
 CAROLE EDWARDS, Certified Oncology Nurse                                      
 3998 Diane Road                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                         
 Telephone:  (907) 789-3345                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified in support of CSSB 253(FIN)                    
                                                                               
 KRISTINE PELLET, Student Intern                                               
   for Senator Jim Duncan                                                      
 Alaska State Legislature                                                      
 Capitol Building, Room 119                                                    
 Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4766                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSB 253(FIN)                               
                                                                               
 JANET PARKER, Deputy Director                                                 
 Division of Retirement & Benefits                                             
 Department of Administration                                                  
 P.O. Box 110203                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska  99811-0203                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4470                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered questions on CSSB 253(FIN)                      
                                                                               
 BOB STALNAKER, Director                                                       
 Division of Retirement & Benefits                                             
 Department of Administration                                                  
 P.O. Box 110203                                                               
 Juneau, Alaska  99811-0203                                                    
 Telephone:  (907) 465-4470                                                    
 POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified on CSSB 253(FIN)                               
                                                                               
 ACTION NARRATIVE                                                              
                                                                               
 TAPE 96-46, SIDE A                                                            
 Number 001                                                                    
                                                                               
 The House Health, Education and Social Services Standing Committee            
 was called to order by CO-CHAIR CON BUNDE at 3:10 p.m.  Members               
 present at the call to order were Representatives Bunde, Toohey, G.           
 Davis, Robinson and Brice.  Members absent were Representatives               
 Rokeberg and Vezey.                                                           
                                                                               
 CSSB 253(FIN) - INS.FOR PROSTATE & CERVICAL CANCER TESTS                    
                                                                               
 Number 007                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE announced that CSSB 253(FIN) was the only bill on              
 the agenda for the meeting.  He asked Gene Dau to come forward and            
 testify.                                                                      
                                                                               
 Number 097                                                                    
                                                                               
 GENE DAU, Representative, American Association of Retired Persons             
 and Veterans of Foreign Wars testified in support of CSSB 253(FIN).           
 He noted that in the last meeting on CSSB 253(FIN) Co-Chair Toohey            
 had asked him if he would have the PSA test again if he had to pay            
 for it personally.  He neglected to report at that time that he is            
 a disabled veteran and the Veteran's Administration pays his                  
 medical costs.  He recalled the testimony from representatives of             
 the insurance companies at the last meeting indicating this was an            
 experimental procedure.  According to conversations with his                  
 doctor, it is not an experimental procedure; it is well established           
 and it is within 5 percentage points of being 100 percent.  His               
 doctor had also pointed out that with the PSA test, the cancer can            
 be detected much earlier than with the other test.  He encouraged             
 committee members to pass this bill out of committee.                         
                                                                               
 Number 280                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY commented the test is absolutely no good unless a             
 person gets the test.                                                         
                                                                               
 MR. DAU said that's why people should be encouraged to get the                
 test.  He noted that if the Veteran's Administration had not paid             
 for his first PSA test, he may have put it off to the following               
 year.  He believed that men would be more inclined to have the                
 first PSA test done if the cost was covered by insurance.                     
                                                                               
 Number 368                                                                    
                                                                               
 CAROLE EDWARDS, Certified Oncology Nurse, testified that she has              
 been nationally certified for nine years and serves on a national             
 committee.  She stated that last year when her husband had his                
 annual physical, everything was covered by the insurance company              
 except for the PSA testing.  She noted he does carry the                      
 Supplemental Benefit with the state of Alaska.  They contacted                
 Senator Duncan and asked him to look into the matter.  Her father-            
 in-law died of prostate cancer at the age of 82.  Many men do die             
 with prostate cancer in their advanced years, not of it; however,             
 he happened to die of it.  That puts her husband at high risk in              
 that anyone who has a father or brother who has had prostate cancer           
 is considered a high risk patient just as a woman who has a mother,           
 sister or first degree relative is considered at high risk for                
 breast cancer.  She pointed out that about seven years ago, Texas             
 was the first state to mandate by law that mammogram screening be             
 paid for according to the American Cancer Society guidelines for              
 women to find breast cancer earlier.  Many of the states followed             
 suit and she believed there were now 48 states which mandate by law           
 that mammograms be paid for by insurance companies.  Until that               
 time, the insurance companies would pay only if there was a                   
 symptom.  The same thing is happening with prostate cancer in men             
 and she felt that men have the same right to have early screening             
 for prostate cancer that women have for breast cancer.  Her husband           
 just recently had his physical and if Aetna doesn't pay for the PSA           
 test, they will pay for it personally.  They are in a position to             
 pay, but the economically disadvantaged and less educated people              
 are not going to make the decision on their own to pay $70 for a              
 test that might well save their lives.  In her profession, she                
 administers chemotherapy for people in the advanced stages of                 
 cancer and she tries to help these people through it as best she              
 can.  She would like to save lives by either preventing cancer by             
 teaching people what they need to do to prevent cancer in the first           
 place, or save lives and money by finding it early before it has              
 metastasized to other body parts.                                             
                                                                               
 Number 583                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY commented that Ms. Edwards had mentioned the cost             
 of a PSA test was $70; however, according to information she had              
 received the test can be done at Bartlett Memorial Hospital for               
 $26.50.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MS. EDWARDS stated she had contacted the lab and was told the cost            
 was $70.                                                                      
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY responded that Bartlett Memorial Hospital contracts           
 with a lab in Seattle and gets tests done for a rate of $26.50 plus           
 carrying and handling charges.  Also, the Health Fair charges $30             
 for a PSA test.                                                               
                                                                               
 MS. EDWARDS didn't know what the handling charges were but she was            
 told $60-$70 for the cost of the test by the lab at the hospital              
 which was the cost last year when her husband had the test.  She              
 commented that in an earlier discussion, Co-Chair Toohey had stated           
 that she didn't like to see government get involved and mandate               
 health care.  As a health care provider, Ms. Edwards agreed 100               
 percent but added that health care is being mandated by the                   
 insurance companies in what they will or won't pay, not by the                
 doctors according to what they feel is necessary for the patient.             
 In her own personal situation, it is important that her husband               
 have a PSA test annually, but the insurance company is refusing to            
 cover the cost.  She commented the test is controversial, but more            
 and more studies are being released which support PSA screening in            
 that it is more accurate, it is decreasing mortality and morbidity            
 and it is more accepted as a stronger and beneficial test.  She               
 believed that in the next year or two there will be more research             
 studies; John's Hopkins is very involved in research studies in               
 this area at the present time.                                                
                                                                               
 MS. EDWARDS concluded that she would like to see it mandated by the           
 state of Alaska that insurance companies pay for the test according           
 to the American Cancer Society guidelines, which would be an annual           
 screening for men over the age of 50, and for men over the age of             
 40 if they are high risk.                                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY interjected that was part of the existing contract.           
 There had been previous testimony that if there was suspicion                 
 following a digital examination, the insurance companies would                
 cover the cost of the PSA testing.  It is not however, offered as             
 an option for a screening at this time.                                       
                                                                               
 Number 797                                                                    
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE recalled there had been testimony from three                   
 individuals who had undergone PSA testing by the same physician and           
 the rate was $25-$30.  Based on articles that he had read, it was             
 decided initially that the screening wasn't the "end all/be all,"             
 statistically it increased the life expectancy of an individual for           
 only six months and if individuals were scared into or encouraged             
 into surgery, the consequences of the surgery could be devastating.           
 He asked Ms. Edwards to comment.                                              
                                                                               
 MS. EDWARDS said the background was that when autopsies were done             
 on men over the age of 90, almost 100 percent had prostate cancer.            
 Therefore, the older a man gets, the more likely he is to have                
 prostate cancer, but will not die from it.  However, if a man in              
 his 50s has prostate cancer, there is a very good chance he will              
 die from it, not with it.  There is a better chance of saving lives           
 if it is detected early and men in the 50-70 age group have a                 
 better chance.  She stated the surgery has greatly improved in the            
 last couple of years.  There is decreased impotence and                       
 incontinence now with the surgery which were issues that impacted             
 the quality of a person's life.                                               
                                                                               
 Number 945                                                                    
                                                                               
 KRISTINE PELLET, Student Intern for Senator Jim Duncan, testified             
 that Senator Duncan feels the amendment would defeat the purpose of           
 the bill.  She noted that it is currently on the list of offerings,           
 so essentially it would do nothing.  By making it a mandatory                 
 offering, there is no way to encourage men who are unaware of the             
 benefits of early screening and there is no way of educating them             
 of the relevancy of the PSA test.  She pointed out that page 2,               
 Section 1(e), does allow for more advanced testing, not just the              
 PSA test.                                                                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY questioned the zero fiscal note.                              
                                                                               
 MS. PELLET deferred that question to Janet Parker of the Division             
 of Retirement & Benefits.                                                     
                                                                               
 Number 1006                                                                   
                                                                               
 JANET PARKER, Deputy Director, Division of Retirement & Benefits,             
 Department of Administration, explained the state plan already pays           
 for a medically necessary PSA exam.  The only PSA exams that are              
 currently not covered are in a routine screening when individuals             
 are having a well-physical exam.  The well-physical exam is paid              
 for by state employees themselves under the Supplemental Benefits             
 System (SBS) Option 1 plan.  There is no additional cost to the               
 state.                                                                        
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE remarked if that's the way things are now, then                
 people who are unaware are not going to be encouraged to take the             
 PSA test.  He wondered what would change if the legislation passed            
 as it is written; individuals would still be paying for their well-           
 physical and not covered by insurance.                                        
                                                                               
 MS. PARKER said if the bill passes, as it is written which mandates           
 PSA coverage, when a person has their well-physical and the doctor            
 includes that PSA test, whether it is requested by the patient or             
 not, it will be covered by their insurance.                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY asked if there was no charge?                                 
                                                                               
 MS. PARKER replied not to the state.  She explained a fiscal note             
 is based upon what additional state dollars are required.                     
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY questioned the impact of the inclusion of this                
 provision when the insurance plan is renegotiated.                            
                                                                               
 MS. PARKER said there would be no fiscal impact to the state                  
 because the entire cost of the well-physical exam is paid by the              
 employee.  She explained it was about $20 through an employee's SBS           
 premiums for employee only coverage.                                          
                                                                               
 Number 1112                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said that's his point exactly.  The employees are              
 paying for the well-physical.  If this legislation passes and the             
 employee wants a PSA test, they get it but they're still paying for           
 the well-physical.                                                            
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY inquired why this bill was needed.                            
                                                                               
 Number 1135                                                                   
                                                                               
 BOB STALNAKER, Director, Division of Retirement & Benefits,                   
 Department of Administration, directed the committee's attention to           
 the analysis of the fiscal note which addresses the fact that it is           
 anticipated to increase the costs of the SBS Option 1 by about                
 $60,000 per year.  That's the additional cost of having the PSA               
 test included under the Option 1.  The reason the fiscal note is              
 zero on its face is because that cost is picked up by the employees           
 who elect to pay for Option 1.  He explained that whether that                
 $60,000 would in fact have any kind of impact on the $50 a month              
 per family or $25 a month for an individual is hard to tell because           
 $60,000 is not a lot of money when it is spread over the thousands            
 of people who select Option 1.                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1189                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE said in reality this bill as it is written is a                
 mandatory offering; it's offered, people can have it, but they pay            
 for it.                                                                       
                                                                               
 MR. STALNAKER said, "I think we too often get into what I think in            
 this bill is confusing the state plan with something offered to               
 everybody.  The fact that the state plan has through public policy            
 by administrations, the legislature and the unions in collective              
 bargaining, include a lot of things that most plans don't include             
 because it's a good idea.  And as I testified before, I may not               
 personally support mandated coverages across-the-board; there are             
 times when it's wise to do it.  I think mammograms is a prime case            
 of that and I think statistics will show overall health costs will            
 decrease over time because of that.  I think this is another                  
 example of that.  I think we will find over time that this will               
 detect a disease that every man has at some time in his life.  Some           
 people die of it and this will detect it at an earlier, much less             
 costly stage."                                                                
                                                                               
 Number 1262                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY said the pros and cons of these tests are not the             
 discussion, but rather is it government's job to mandate that a               
 person get these tests; who was paying for it.  She commented they            
 had spent the last five months cutting the budget by $70 million;             
 how could it be explained they were now raising it by $60,000                 
 because people do not have enough education to spend $30 to get               
 their own PSA test.  She questioned whether people really needed to           
 be "spoon fed."                                                               
                                                                               
 MR. STALNAKER understood what Co-Chair Toohey was getting at, but             
 there are times when it is appropriate to "spoon feed" someone                
 because the cost of the test may mean buying a new pair of shoes              
 for the kids or whatever, and they won't do it on their own.                  
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE asked if there were further questions or testimony.            
 Hearing none, he closed the meeting to public testimony.  He had an           
 amendment making it a mandatory offering, not a mandatory coverage.           
                                                                               
 Number 1370                                                                   
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR TOOHEY moved to adopt Amendment 1.                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON objected.                                             
                                                                               
 CO-CHAIR BUNDE thought the committee understood the philosophical             
 difference between mandatory coverage and mandatory offering.  He             
 asked if there was further discussion.  Hearing none, he asked for            
 a roll call vote.  Voting in favor to adopt Amendment 1 were                  
 Representatives Davis, Toohey and Bunde.  Voting against Amendment            
 1 were Representatives Robinson and Brice.                                    
                                                                               
 Number 1385                                                                   
                                                                               
 REPRESENTATIVE ROBINSON made a motion to pass HCS CSSB 253(HES)               
 with attached fiscal notes and individual recommendations out of              
 committee.  Hearing no objection, it was so ordered.                          
                                                                               
 ADJOURNMENT                                                                   
                                                                               
 There being no further business to come before the House Health,              
 Education and Social Services Committee, Co-Chair Bunde adjourned             
 the meeting at 3:36 p.m.                                                      
                                                                               

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